This is at least in part because, as Hatters Friedman points out, "Therapy requires honesty and I'm not sure Joe's been honest with anyone in the series" including himself. Joe Goldberg is one of those rare sociopaths who come across as very charming. The goal of intimacy-seeking stalkers is to enter into a relationship with the person they're stalking, who they believe is meant to be with them. Goldberg committed all of these heinous and unlawful acts without showing remorse and did so for his own benefit in this case, being closer to Beck which suggests he could be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, Scott said. You is narrated by Joe Goldbergs ongoing monologues; these solo dialogues are what manipulate streamers into supporting him, and antagonising the characters who attempt sabotaging the stalkers devious plans. Even though Joe, unsettlingly played by Penn Badgley, is fictional, his patterns of behavior toward the latest object of his desire come across as frighteningly realistic. Even though he is scared internally, he appears normal from outside because subconsciously he is confident and knows how to get away. Strangership and Privilege in Netflix's You.. Even though he is outright creepy, you cant really spot whats going on in his mind. Quinn, his son and newfound friends, which shows us a different side of And if it comes to saving his a$$, he can kill his girlfriend too. I have watched a bit of the series, so I know what's going on (although I did just get some spoilers! Some Extremely Baffling Info Has Come To Light About Ellys Time On The Bachelor, 23 Sep 2020 NOW WATCH: Los Angeles loves this innovative taco omakase, pattern of becoming obsessed with certain women, term "psychopath" doesn't hold much meaning, medically speaking, people with antisocial personality disorder, more inclined to break the law than those with narcissistic personality disorder, narcissists fly under the radar because they use their charm, Penn Badgley admits it's 'not entirely fair' to blame 'You' fans for thirsting over Joe, despite slamming them in the past, 6 things you probably didn't know about the making of season 2 of Netflix's 'You', Joe from 'You' is probably a love addict, and an expert says it's more common than you might think. This has helped him cope with dealing with specific He Beforehand, let us go over some Sign up for notifications from Insider! found a New York bookstore, Mooney's, as a manager. By Cynthia Vinney This typology is made up of five stalker types: Incompetent stalkers want to establish an intimate relationship with the individual they're stalking but recognize that their affections are not reciprocated. Like 'Twilight' before it, Netflix's 'You''s main character is far from desirable - and yet, numerous fans still adore their every move. In the television series You, a number of personality disorders are observed, including the main characters. PloS One, 15 (3), e0229876. Pop Culture's Problematic Portrayal of Psychopathy., Worrall, Daina. Jung had similar views like Freud did. According to NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology Information), psychopathy is technically not a psychiatric diagnosis. It's easy to see how Joe's pursuit of his love object would fit the definition of an intimacy-seeking stalker given the way he pursues Beck, then Love, then Marienne throughout You's first three seasons. She received her bachelor's in broadcasting and mass communication from State University of New York at Oswego, and lives in Buffalo, New York. named Joe Goldberg and the woman named Guinevere Beck. In previous seasons, it was easy to see Joe as a psychopath due to his severe obsessions and violence with women, but there is more to Joes mental state than meets the eye. All of which Joe had experienced as a child. Fredrick, C. (2020, August 17). On December 26, Netflix released the highly-anticipated second season of its original thriller series "You," which centers around narrator Joe Goldberg, a young man who has a pattern of becoming obsessed with certain women, stalking them, winning them over, and killing anyone around them he believes has wronged his lover. Womens Day 2023: Agar Tum Saath Ho, Aarya, Aranyak, Maharani & Other Must-Binge OTT Series To Celebrate Womens Resilience & Strength! Henry already had survived, the measles when anti-vaxxer Gil admitted that it came from his children, but Love still bonked him on the head which led to his death. would punish Joe by locking him up in a cage below the bookstore in the basement to "teach" Cynthia Vinney, PhD is an expert in media psychology and a published scholar whose work has been published in peer-reviewed psychology journals. Joe devalues his ex-girlfriends in order to manipulate the narrative. Many victims believe they are losing their minds, that they are to blame for the abuse, and that they have no hope of recovering. The term sociopath is also often used interchangeably with psychopath, but the former, in fact, refers to a person with Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD). Joe is a bookstore manager Joe's development of obsessions with different women often leads to violence due to his inability to create and maintain positive relationships, and he often resorts to violence when he feels as though he is being abandoned. (2020). have learned that social relationships are a source of anxiety, and their destructive interpersonal For example, when she murdered her nanny as a child, the Quinn family covered it up. But on the other, he is the man of your dreams. individuals' personal memories and ideas," which why Joe would defend the person he loved to I can really see the thought you have put into this, and your analysis of the show is excellent. He is a great example of how someone can be diagnosed using psychoanalysis. And just as Joe had a tragic childhood, which he leverages for sympathy, people in real life can do the same: "A compelling story about how sad their childhood was evokes this caretaker instinct." Deerfield Beach, FL: And its pretty iconic. The reason is the way he carries himself in front of people. However, it is so much more than that. On the outside, a cooling-down period may appear to be a peaceful process, but on the inside, the victim is constantly trying to figure out how to get over the narcissist. Now dont get me wrong, both Joe and Love are murderers and psychopaths. Unlike Joe and Love, both serial killers are typically narcissistic, whereas Joe is a textbook example ofYandere, whereas Love is a typical, garden-variety killer. Goldberg shows signs of antisocial personality disorder. Goldberg shows signs of antisocial personality disorder, narcissism, and codependency in season 1. Finally, his violent tendencies make him a predatory stalker, especially when it comes to characters like Benji and Ryan. Sarah Regan is a Spirituality & Relationships Editor, and a registered yoga instructor. But the All of these traits fit the criteria for someone with psychopathy. Protective Services came and sent him to a Group Home for Boys in New York. In contrast to Joe, a Cancer would be someone who would bring out the best in you. In addition to my work in mental health, I am also a professional book reviewer. Terms. References Rejected stalkers want both revenge for the rejection and reconciliation with the person who rejected them, with their inclination toward both impulses changing on a regular basis. No need to be fancy, just an overview. any situation that presents to them. Instead, the best hope for anyone in a relationship with a malignant narcissist in real life is to get out. moments, they both are similar is stating things come from when we are younger and explains Ltd. All Rights Reserved, Ariana Grandes Film On Sweetener Tour Has Got Netflix & YouTube Into A Bidding War, Happy Birthday Meghan Markle! How the Stigma of Mental Health Is Spread by Mass Media, How Sociopaths Are Different from Psychopaths, Daily Tips for a Healthy Mind to Your Inbox, National Intimate Partner And Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS): 2015 Data Brief, You (the novel and the television series). Tell us you love Punkee without telling us you love Punkee. As soon as he discovered that he was the murderer, he killed Beck and Candace, covered his tracks, and moved on. Gaslighting, verbal abuse, and intimidation are some of the most common forms of abusive behavior. As Jung says, "the He has a false sense of self-worth. a woman, he needs to be overprotected. Not so fast. obvious You Season 3 spoilers ahead In the latest season, we watched Joe and Love move to the picturesque town of Madre Linda to raise their son, Henry. Cynthia Vinney, PhD is an expert in media psychology and a published scholar whose work has been published in peer-reviewed psychology journals. 2. There are many ways to tackle this question, including how it reflects our ideals of romance in a rapidly changing dating landscape. Klestzick, Rebecca. self-defense to save himself and his mother from his father. When Love no longer provides Joe with the supply he requires, he ends her life. At the same time, more information offered in "You" season 2 suggests Goldberg may not have antisocial personality disorder, but an attachment disorder related to childhood trauma. He is also paranoid and has a lot of anger. Joe killed his father to gain love style is a defense mechanism intended to ward off feelings of anxiety". Despite Love thinking that she was killing to protect her marriage and family, she was just needlessly killing with no restraint. Guinevere Beck was a central character in television series, You, serving as the titular love interest in season 1 as well as a posthumous character in season 2. While Goldberg never receives an explicit diagnosis in either season of "You," many viewers seem to believe he is a psychopath. What is that thing? According to Scott, this shift in understanding his diagnosismakes "You" feel like a more realistic portrayal of mental health. This is because he is so clear about his intentions that even when he is committing a serious crime, he is clean in his own mind. Love craves violence and chaos, and that was very clear in Season 3. The fact that both ASPD and psychopathic tendencies can stem from environmental factors also brings us to the rest of our romantic serial killers diagnosis. If you've watched Netflix's You, there's a chance you may have started to second-guess yourself recently. He is also paranoid and has a lot of anger. Joe was mentally ill. There is no doubt that Netflixs You series, which depicts the most toxic relationship youre likely to see on television today, is one of the most toxic. Even when he is having some really monstrous thoughts in his mind, you cant really have a clue. him the value of books and reading. Even though society thinks this Grand Canyon University: PSY- Cross), Psychology (David G. Myers; C. Nathan DeWall), Forecasting, Time Series, and Regression (Richard T. O'Connell; Anne B. Koehler), Educational Research: Competencies for Analysis and Applications (Gay L. R.; Mills Geoffrey E.; Airasian Peter W.), Principles of Environmental Science (William P. Cunningham; Mary Ann Cunningham), Chemistry: The Central Science (Theodore E. Brown; H. Eugene H LeMay; Bruce E. Bursten; Catherine Murphy; Patrick Woodward), Campbell Biology (Jane B. Reece; Lisa A. Urry; Michael L. Cain; Steven A. Wasserman; Peter V. Minorsky), Biological Science (Freeman Scott; Quillin Kim; Allison Lizabeth), Give Me Liberty! Klestzick, Rebecca. By clicking Sign up, you agree to receive marketing emails from Insider "He's positioned as alone in the world, abused and neglected by his mom.". The Perfect Villain That Romance Built: Joe Goldberg on His work at the CIA garnered three Exceptional Performance Awards. After being in As for antisocial behavior, Joe does not have any friends, nor does he make any effort to befriend others, aside from children who he feels obligated to care for. While the target of stalking is certainly in danger from the intimacy-seeking stalker, Hatters Friedman adds that if "someone's seen as getting in the way [of the relationship between the stalker and their target], they may be at risk from the stalker [too].". This was a way Mr. Mooney shows Joe his affection and, Some presenting issues Joe has would be having a narcissist personality with A Complex Character: Joe Goldberg From You In the third season, we see more of Joes background as an abused child, which led to his development of antisocial personality disorder, narcissism and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). The balance of power and respect are important distinctions between normal and abuse cycles. Mullen PE, Path M, Purcell R, Stuart GW. Malignant narcissists exhibit the traits associated with narcissistic personality disorder, including grandiosity, entitlement and lack of empathy, but also have antisocial tendencies, including a lack of remorse and blaming others for their actions. The cycle must be identified in order to break free. However, our hero also channels traits that are not covered by this diagnosis. Movies, TV shows, and even Joe's beloved books depict men pursuing romance by "accidentally" bumping into their love interest or continuing to pursue her even after she's said she isn't interested. The initial tag of being a psychopath, though not wrong, doesnt tell the complete story. It is possible to modify the four steps of the original cycle of abuse in narcissistic relationships. Psychoanalysis of "You"'s Joe Goldberg. By: Ayesha Nayak. The Royalty Whos Got The Best Wit & Fashion Sense Of This World. Joe does not know his biological mother, Sandy, and he Joe and Joe were very different types of serial killers, as indicated in You Season 3: Are Joe and Love Different Kinds of Serial Killers? and respect from his mother, which did not work at the end. He falls in love with those women who he thinks need his help. worsened as he got older. Burger stated that "According to Karen Horney, children growing up in anxiety- Joe Goldberg is often described as a psychopath, but this is largely because the term psychopath has become a popular tag for the (fictional and real-life) violent killers that grace our screens. 38/40. Verywell Mind's content is for informational and educational purposes only. Unfortunately, Joe does become infatuated with numerous new women which leads to more violence and obsessions that take him away from his new family. He first started in New York and He hurt his loved ones and others whom he suspected. Cognitive behavioral therapist Dr. Avigail Lev, director of Bay Area CBT Center and founder of CBT Online, gets more specific, diagnosing Joe with covert malignant narcissism. Abandoned as a child, Child "You". Highest Grossing Hindi Dubbed South Films. These flashbacks help viewers better understand the root cause of Goldberg's behavior and, according to Scott, these scenes led her to believe Goldberg acts how he does not because he lacks empathy and has antisocial personality disorder, but because his violent and turbulent childhood caused him to develop an attachment disorder. They become more manipulative and they're more likely to commit crimes." Impulsive decision-making, antisocial behavior, and/or little to no guilt and empathy are just a few other traits aside from superficial harm found in psychopaths, which can clearly be seen in Joe. Furthermore, only some people with narcissistic personality disorder reach the level of malignant narcissism, the most severe form of the condition. Lynzee Smith will not harm them, but he is thinking about something different. Joes development of obsessions with different women often leads to violence due to his inability to create and maintain positive relationships, and he often resorts to violence when he feels as though he is being abandoned. He cant be in love with anything, no matter how much he is addicted or obsessed with it. In fact, both Hatters Friedman and Lev point out that even though Joe may seem like he truly loves Beck, Love, or the other women he obsesses over, the show subtly demonstrates that, like a real-life malignant narcissist, he doesn't see these characters as human beings with strengths and weaknesses of their own. And the only reason she was able to do these thingswithout being disturbed by the public was because Love had the funds to open the bakery alone. I run the publications Peachy Keen Reviews & Bibliotherapy - Celebrating the Healing Power of Art - and The Horror Maven - A Celebration of the Macabre. Conclusion Joe is a pervert who doesnt have self control even a bit. The Complexity of The Psychopathic Mind., Leiden, Luke. 2022 Mighty Proud Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Joe will do whatever in his means to help them out in Ever.". Dr. Nicky applies psychoanalysis in one . He is also very manipulative and has a lack of empathy. Retrieved from netflix/watch/80212201?trackId=13752289. Medical/Surgical Nursing Concepts (NUR242), Nursing B43 Nursing Care of the Medical Surgical (NURS B43), Introduction To Project Management Software (CSBU539), Professional Application in Service Learning I (LDR-461), Advanced Anatomy & Physiology for Health Professions (NUR 4904), Principles Of Environmental Science (ENV 100), Operating Systems 2 (proctored course) (CS 3307), Comparative Programming Languages (CS 4402), Business Core Capstone: An Integrated Application (D083), Amelia Sung - Guided Reflection Questions, 1010 - Summary Worlds Together Worlds Apart, Chapter 1 - Principles of Animal Behavior, 3.4.1.7 Lab - Research a Hardware Upgrade, Chapter 1 - BANA 2081 - Lecture notes 1,2, TB-Chapter 21 Peripheral Vascular System and Lymphatic System, Tina Jones Heent Interview Completed Shadow Health 1, Chapter 1 - Summary Give Me Liberty! People who are severely codependent tend to control their partner or the person they're codependent towards and define themselves primarily in relationship to their partner rather than having their own identity, Insider previously reported. but as the show progresses, the more dangerous he becomes, it's clear that he's a sociopath, because now he's moved into antisocial behaviors. Required fields are marked *. Joe Goldberg - other other University Grand Canyon University Course Personality Psychology (PSY-255) Academic year2020/2021 Helpful? We rely on the most current and reputable sources, which are cited in the text and listed at the bottom of each article. While weve known Joe Goldberg to be the obsessive stalker with murderous tendencies for three seasons ofYou,Love Quinn proved that she was the true psycho of the series in Season 3. Content is fact checked after it has been edited and before publication. Joe is adopted and cared for by a man named Mr. Mooney, but Joe is not treated well; he is locked in a glass cabinet filled with books, He loves to satisfy her and feels bad about himself when he fails to do so in his first attempt. Season 3 of "You" is slated to debut in 2021. When we dive into his past, these presenting problems have Codependence and Interdependence: cross-cultural reappraisal of But at least Joe was methodical and careful in his approach to murdering people. Strangership and Privilege in Netflix's You. UBC English Students' Association, 2 Feb. 2020, www.ubcenglish.com/why-does-everyone-like-joe-goldberg-strangership-and-privilege-in-netflixs-you/. According to Susan Hatters Friedman, MD, Professor of Forensic Psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University, Joe's behavior is an accurate representation of stalking and falls into several categories in the stalker typology created by Mullen and colleagues, the classification system most commonly used in stalking research. Books, and horror, especially, have helped me a lot through my struggles with my mental health, and I enjoy sharing the healing power of books with others. Fans realised Love was Joe's murdering match when she discovers his neighbour Delilah (Carmela Zumbado) being held hostage in his infamous book vault. "You can do it in a non-physical way. And no matter what he's doing to win the heart of his latest obsession, including theft and murder, he sees all of his behavior as justified because it is done to help her and their relationship. ", However, You's characterization of Joe Goldberg isn't flawless. And he's not willing to leave your romance to chance, so even though you don't know it, he follows you, he manipulates you, he controls you. Verywell Mind uses only high-quality sources, including peer-reviewed studies, to support the facts within our articles. It comes down to the empathy that Joe evokes, according to Neo. What is the status of Joe and his relationship with you? Although he has done so much wrong, Goldberg still thinks he is a perfect individual, and lacks guilt to take accountability for his actions or even feel empathy towards the people who he has violated. In the story, Joe is an orphan, and he is ignored by his parents. Many symptoms of ASPD, like difficulty sustaining long-term relationships, having a lack of guilt, not learning from ones mistakes, and repeatedly breaking the law, seem to be clear red flags that Joe suffers from ASPD. The release reignited Twitter speculations about Goldberg's mental health that have been swirling since season 1. 'You's' Penn Badgley Says Fans Can't Be Entirely Blamed for Liking Joe While Joe had already been turned off Love since he learned that she was basically the same person as him at the end of Season 2, Natalies murder was what really spelled the end of the Quinn-Goldberg love story. "It's very obvious from the beginning of [You] that [Joe] has narcissistic personality disorder," Lev observes. Everyone has a darkness and a light inside them. Joe Goldberg is a Caucasian male in his 30s, who recently moved from New York to Joe Goldberg is often described as a psychopath, but this is largely because the term "psychopath" has become a popular tag for the (fictional and real-life) violent killers that grace our screens.The term "sociopath" is also often used interchangeably with "psychopath," but the former, in fact, refers to a person with Anti-Social Personality . 1. Joe devalues his wife, Love, while also gaining his bosss affection in the shows latest season. You have to choose which one to act on. National Intimate Partner And Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS): 2015 Data Brief. But in the end, he didnt. "What we can learn from psychopaths like Joe," Neo says, "is that we need to have a lot better boundaries. Then when Joe and Love invited Sherry and Cary over to have sex, Love went beserk when she noticed that Joe was simply fantasising about having sex with another woman. Yet, the series doesn't acknowledge this reality. Symptoms include difficulty managing their emotions, being overly friendly, irritability, and refusing to engage in social situations. What's the Difference Between a Sociopath and a Narcissist? personality disorder. It'll mean the world. Psychopaths tend to be charming at an initial impression; this is why no one ever suspects Joe in either season, and both fans and characters believe that Joe is a likeable person while the people who are against his horrible deeds are viewed as the antagonists. His father used to beat his mother and hence Joe ended up killing him. She was portrayed by Elizabeth Lail. as well as other partner offers and accept our. Moreover, Joe's tragic backstory, which includes a mother who abandoned him after he shot and killed her abusive boyfriend and a foster father who locked him in a glass book cage for extended periods of time, establishes the roots of an attachment disorder that make it challenging for Joe to bond with or trust others. Another reason why ASPD and psychopathy are often used interchangeably and continue to be so difficult to separate is that both are mainly studied in terms of their effect on society, as opposed to the impact they have on the person inflicted by them. Cookies collect information about your preferences and your devices and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. However, his charming demeanor keeps him under the radar even as his body count rises, and Joe Goldberg keeps falling in love again and again. What Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)? It appears you entered an invalid email. Even though he has been portrayed as an obsessive murderer in previous ISBN-13: 9781337559010. This is an accurate example of how psychopaths gaslight others. Demographics Realistically, if it wasnt for Joes help, Love wouldve been charged with Natalies murder in Episode 2. This article contains major spoilers for the first three seasons of the TV show, You, now streaming on Netflix. Hence, Joe clearly has issues with codependency, which inform the relationships he forms with women. As Lev put it, "Hollywood wants the happy ending, and in reality, when women are in this relationship [with a malignant narcissist], they do not have a happy ending. You Joe Goldberg Based On Real Social Media Nightmare - Refinery29 THE PSYCHOANALYSIS OF JOE GOLDBERG | Netflix Series You | Perspectives from a Christian Therapist 388 views Sep 16, 2020 25 Dislike Share Wholistic Healing 481 subscribers In this video I am. He struggles with forming connections, which could be seen as a protective mechanism due to his childhoodabuse with other children, but he discovers that he has more of an ability to create relationships than he previously thought. She relied heavily on Joe this season to clean up her murders and craft stories to ensure that the killings never pointed back to her. oversee that Joe Goldberg might switch over these theories. Season three of You is unique in that Joe becomes a father, and we get to see more of his childhood and his insecurities in becoming a parent. Joe Goldberg from You. ", According to Lev, "Stalking is seen in the full spectrum of narcissism." A lot of this comes down to Love having the luxury of family money, which has always helped to bail her out of sticky situations. We're immune to trickery, we have good taste in partners, and our BS radars are strong, right? Joe Goldberg When it comes to the most intelligent characters on You, Joe Goldberg would have to be named number one. 1999;156(8):1244-1249. I specialize in borderline personality disorder, eating disorders, schizoaffective disorder, anxiety, depression, and PTSD. Some argue that Joe is simply selfish and manipulative, while others believe that his actions and thoughts stem from a much deeper issue. Joe Goldberg: Factors Influencing Stalker Behaviour - Blogger When we first meet Love Quinn in season two of You, we see a smitten Joe Goldberg who has yet again managed to over-romanticize life with a new victim. Love does not care about consequences or the messes she makes. It's actually very self-absorbed. Retrieved on September 21, 2020 YOU [Video His issues also seem to stem a lot from his childhood experiences, which make him obsessively codependent on his partner (or someone he envisions as being his partner), and when things dont work out, the antisocial (ASPD) tendencies kick in. Basically, Love is a messy, messy bitch who lives for drama. When people are told to believe in their own lies, they engage in a cycle of narcissistic abuse. Without spoiling anything, there are multiple close calls within the show where viewers may find themselves hoping Joe gets away with his actions. Burger, J. M. (2019). Love *going raw with Theo in the park the night before*: #YouNetflix #YOUSEASON3 #YouS3 pic.twitter.com/8jE8UYbk7O, Robyn The Sunflower (@Robyninbloom) October 18, 2021. "These [are] projections of what a perfect, ideal woman to be in love with [is] to him," Hatters Friedman explains. One that truly loved beck and other that just wanted to get his way no matter what. This is an accurate example of how psychopaths gaslight others. Copyright 2023 StudeerSnel B.V., Keizersgracht 424, 1016 GC Amsterdam, KVK: 56829787, BTW: NL852321363B01, Brunner and Suddarth's Textbook of Medical-Surgical Nursing (Janice L. Hinkle; Kerry H. Cheever), Civilization and its Discontents (Sigmund Freud), Business Law: Text and Cases (Kenneth W. Clarkson; Roger LeRoy Miller; Frank B.